That opinion piece is titled "If Milo Yiannopoulos has huge support in Australia, men must call him out".
I wasn't aware of the article before your post, but now that I've read it, I don't see anything controversial (much less "atrocious") in it. Care to elaborate?
Some men feel weirdly threatened by the possibility of a world where their less than stellar behaviour towards women might be called out. Every comment like the one you're replying to is the same "I loved X until they lost all credibility and became biased by Y" where Y = calling out shitty MRA/Alt-right activist figures.
Nice try at attempting to slander my character or political stances: but no dice for you. This isn't about my own personal stances. It's about the publication and if you can call it news.
I'm really not sure where the MRA or comments on women came from in my original comment.
The Guardian (And the BBC) used to my main source for international news, and cultural trends until about 2012ish. That's when they started heavily featuring columnists that put out articles similar to the one that I mentioned. I wrote a letter to an editor with a concern, it got ignored. I stopped taking them seriously (as a whole) and reading as a primary source.
I'm not trying to 'slander' your character. Your complaint with the Guardian was literally about an article calling out Milo, a controversial bigot who, as was recently revealed by BuzzFeed, fraternises with Nazis for his own gain. This is a pattern I've seen recur among angry MRA/alt-right types - saying they got sick of news source because of something related to feminism.
If you're not MRA/alt-right then I'm sorry, but I'd suggest picking your examples more carefully.
I'm not sure why the editor owed you a reply either. You're free to not read it. It can't have meant that much to you as you didn't seem to fight it all that hard.
Which specific nazis did Milo fraternise with? The Daily Stormer hates him, and he's married to a black man.
Or are you using 'fraternises' as 'contacted'? Milo is a journalist, they contact people. The Guardian also contacts nazis. It doesn't mean they are nazis.
I'm no fan of Milo (kinda hate the guy honestly), but I'm not sure if "talking with sources about the topic of an article" really qualifies as fraternizing. That sort of thing is somewhat of a job requirement if you intend to write about the topic honestly. What's he supposed to do, not treat this like real journalism and just publish whatever negative quotes he can get from anyone about it?
It’s not weird that they feel threatened, they have a lot to gain from that behavior and some may be dependent on it. I think it’s normal to feel threatened by it given their potential lifestyle.
I'm not the person you replied to. I'm in no way threatened by my personal behavior being called out. I'm threatened because I'm lumped into the category of 'men' and then loaded with all the baggage of every man who I have zero connection with have done or said.
Don't get me wrong, I despise those shitty people too, but I also have a bone to pick with the people who are, successfully, generalizing the behavior to men.
No you're not, I explicitly said 'some'. I'm also a man. I abhor the shitty behaviour, but I recognise that our current conceptions of masculinity enable it - and trap us too. I've been through a few phases with my discovery and reconciliation with feminism, from ignorance, to ridicule, to acknowledgement and some very uncomfortable realisations about my own past behaviour, to now being full-on on board. Feminst arguments aren't just about women, they're about everyone living in a society where masculinity is just one of many forces, balanced with others. Parts of my life are now like this and it's awesome, and actually freeing from all the dullness of traditional masculinity and dominance.
Yes some said 'some' but the article refers to 'men' as a single, unthinking group. Men who refer to women this way are called misogynists and rightly so.
I just typed it directly from my phone. That must have been updated.
Haven't read the article, because I've seen numerous others from the news source. The issue I have with an article with a title like this: Why is it a bad thing to support Milo? Why is it "men who need to be called to fight"? (I don't care about reasons why you don't like Milo. I'm suggesting they're a person with different opinions, respect that)
TL;DR: It's been getting obnoxious that platforms have been used to push political stances. (Such as this) I see this as supressing the opposition and has caused a massive swing in action. (i.e. Trump is "magically" elected despite "predictions" saying otherwise, Brexit happens despite the upper class talking down and ignoring the larger population)
Wow, so you are complaining about, and asking questions to the author of, an article based purely on your perception of its title?
> I don't care about reasons why you don't like Milo. I'm suggesting they're a person with different opinions, respect that
Just a cursory search into who Milo is, what he says and does will show you he is a deeply, virulently intolerant person. And in order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance [1].
> It's been getting obnoxious that platforms have been used to push political stances.
It's the personal opinion column of a journalist. I also don't see anything wrong with her "pushing political stances". Unbiased journalism is a myth. People who call for it are either looking for journalism they already agree with or stuff that is so mundanely unimportant that couldn't possibly contain any stance and therefore news value.
> Wow, so you are complaining about, and asking questions to the author of, an article based purely on your perception of its title?
He's talking about The Guardian and how he doesn't read it anymore. He didn't attribute the author specifically. It doesn't matter whether it was the original author or Guardian's editors guilty of publishing the offensive content.
As I stated before: I don't care about why you don't like Milo.
What is important and what the news should be covering: Why are people taking a liking to him. (And do so in an impartial way without trying to fill the article with 80% hit-pieces) What is he saying and doing is catching a lot of attention? Why are his speeches resonating? How is he in existence? (Is his actions/his character in response to others)
> the society must be intolerant of intolerance
Intolerant towards intolerant extreme actions, yes. In an open society, you must be aware that people have different stances and prejudices. Closed societies can't tolerate the "intolerance". (I.e. Some countries you can't criticize the government)
> "pushing political stances"
Given this stance: I should be given the right to have my stances published in the paper. I operate the "Church of Not Wearing Pants" it is a religious organization, the article is about how the government should respect our religious existence by making pants illegal. Should that be published? It's as equally absurd as calling for a protest for someone you don't like.
> Unbiased journalism
I agree with you 100% neutral journalism doesn't happen. My problem is that unchecked journalism has given us an extreme selection of what is presented and the bias is injected into the news story from the author themselves.
> Why are people taking a liking to him. (And do so in an impartial way without trying to fill the article with 80% hit-pieces) What is he saying and doing is catching a lot of attention? Why are his speeches resonating? How is he in existence? (Is his actions/his character in response to others)
You mean exactly what they did [1] on many [2], many occasions?
> I operate the "Church of Not Wearing Pants" [...] should that be published? It's as equally absurd as calling for a protest for someone you don't like.
If the paper you send it to considers this newsworthy or something the public should consider, of course. If not, you have many other avenues available to you, including self publishing.
> My problem is that unchecked journalism has given us an extreme selection of what is presented and the bias is injected into the news story from the author themselves.
I'm not sure I understand what "unchecked journalism" is, but I don't see a problem here.
You don't seem to grasp the difference between news articles and opinion pieces. The latter is by definition subjective, and is featured to provide an outlet for subjective views, as opposed to the former that is supposed to at least strive to be neutral, objective, and fact-based.
The article you started your rant with is an opinion piece and is clearly marked as such. It is not a news story.
It's an opinion column. It contains opinions. Why should we be tolerant of Milo's opinions, but intolerant of someone who says we should speak out against his opinions?
Complaining about newspaper opinion sections being a platform for pushing political views... that's what they're there for, and why they've existed for hundreds of years before now. You haven't even read the article, so you've obviously arrived with an axe to grind and are just trying to find something that fits.
> Brexit happens despite the upper class talking down and ignoring the larger population
Yeah, no. Brexit is very popular with the upper class. They're going to make a lot of money from it.
> Brexit happens despite the upper class talking down and ignoring the larger population)
The Brexiteers as the leading group like to style themselves (I prefer BeLeaver), are a bunch of the most priviledged upper class old boys of the most expensive schools in England. Boris the Clown went to Eton. Jacob Rees-Mogg got his nanny to deliver election leaflets...and also went to Eton. Farage himself is an ex stock-broker and also attended a top school. This arguement does not hold water
- For the first, Entrepreneurs In (my group) was obviously, well, entrepreneurs.
- For the second, everyone on both sides of the debate agrees that non-London folk won it for Brexit. You're literally the first person I've ever met that would dispute this.
I agree that non-London folk swung it. But it is a bit of a stretch to think either
a) that makes everyone outside London working class
b) that other cities didn't vote Leave
I see lots of landed gentry and farmers who were big on Leave (back then). Lots of Tory home counties types too. I don't think it is even slightly helpful to consider it a class issue.
> platforms have been used to push political stances.
It's called a newspaper.
The British press have never had the American obsession with pretending to be impartial. This has its advantages and disadvantages, but one implication is that it's very clear which party and what politics is supported by which paper.
Is it really a thing with American newspapers though? Don't they often explicitly endorse political candidates?
French newspapers are more like what you describe, all the big ones pretend to be "neutral", whatever that means. Neutrality is a fool's errand IMO, people on your right are always going to say you're a leftist and vice-versa. I want my newspaper to be honest, that's the important part IMO.
I wasn't aware of the article before your post, but now that I've read it, I don't see anything controversial (much less "atrocious") in it. Care to elaborate?